Emails from Real People

Ray 
Thanks so much for the time you spent with me on the phone answering all my questions.  The other day I finally got the time to shoot and try out the new VariFlame Primer Adapters. All I can say is wow it is the first time I shot like this with a muzzle loader at 100 yards.  My hunting buddies can't believe it as well. These bullets (Dead Center 200 grain) are the real deal also the powder flask really works great and makes it simple to make your loads.  I will be calling in another order real soon. Thanks again and good shooting.  I am enclosing a picture of a group I shot.  Click image to enlarge it.

Thanks, Frank Tansley
Beachwood NJ

Ray Just wanted to tell you I received the super rat. Went to the range today and started playing with different bullets. Started with No excuse 460 grain. Shot OK. Before I went home I tried your QT 300 grain 44 cal bullet.  Loaded them into Gonic sabots that measure.500. Shot 90 grain of 777. Group at 50 yds was 3/4" all bullets touching, no paper in between. Group was shot on 3x scope setting. Seemed to kick less than 460 conicals. Still need to try different grains of 777. But very happy. Still need to shoot Dead Centers. Will Dead Centers and QT's shoot the same if they are both 300 grain .44 cal bullets. 

Thanks, 
Bill Lynch

Hello Ray, 

Well the time on the shooting range with different loads and bullets paid off. With your help I had settled on a 235 grain QT bullet and a 120 grain charge of Triple Seven FFG powder. I felt this was the best combination for Manitoba deer hunt where I might have a close shot or one out to 200 yards. Luckily it was close, 32 yards, but a straight on shot into his chest. The QT did the job and the buck went right down. The bullet was found under his skin along his side and had expanded well as the photos show. Thanks for helping me make this a successful hunt! I was hunting with Sugarloaf Outfitting in Grandview, Manitoba. 

My buck did go right down, he did some kicking but never got up. I was a little surprised because the bullet never hit any parts of the shoulders or legs. I think it was the shock of the bullet that kept him down until he died from the loss of blood - certainly less than a minute, maybe 30 seconds. I was reloading and watching him; just in case another shot was needed. 

I was using a Winchester X-150 with which I'm very satisfied. My son was along and was hunting with an that we converted to the 25 ACP brass/primer. He saw a monster but couldn't get a shot. I'll start hunting with that rifle here in CT next week; there's a big one here I'd like to get with it (see my game camera photo attached). 

The weight of the deer by the outfitters scale was 200 lbs live weight but I have to believe it was more than that based on other deer I've gotten. He certainly isn't the "monster" Canadian whitetail that some hunters get but the hunting was tough and I'm very satisfied with the buck. I actually tracked him in the soft snow and called him back to me with rattling/grunting.

Best regards, Don Greene

Ray, a couple of weeks ago I got some of the 175g Dead Center duplex bullets to use in my muzzleloader. I got the chance to try them out last Friday. I took a nice doe at a range of 50 yards. I had a straight on shot at her looking directly at me. I shot her in the neck and she dropped instantly. The bullet hit the spine and never exited the body (pic 2 right bullet). Tonight I shot my first buck with a muzzleloader. A nice 8 pointer with a pretty heavy rack. I shot him broadside at 70 yards. The bullet entered the shoulder, angled down toward the bottom of the ribs on the far side and stayed inside the hide. The deer went 30 yards(left bullet pic 2). These bullets are excellent. I look forward to seeing what they can do at farther distances. We still have a month of deer season left here in NJ. 

Thanks, Erik Smestad

I included a couple of pictures of my deer from '04, in case you needed a picture for your site. I was shooting a .45 Encore with the .25 ACP Breechplug, 105 grains 777 FFFg and a 200 grain D.C. The deer grossed 162 3/8. 

Thanks again, and take care, 
Matt Epp

Hi Ray- just a quick note to once again endorse the QT .40. I killed two more deer with them in Dec. in New York. I was once again impressed with the accuracy and knock down. More importantly your tips (swabbing, shooting loose instead of pellets, fouling first... etc... ) have really made muzzleloading the most fun I have had hunting, ever! The trusty shotgun will get lots of rest in the future. I plan on shooting all winter, I will place an order soon. Happy New Year-

Pete Johnson- Buffalo New York.

Ray. I have spoken to you on a couple of occasions about your bullets and the magnum bases. Tuesday 11-02-04, I had the privilege to use them on a nice 8 pointer. He fell to the 200gr dead center from 50 yards. Man....what an exit hole. He didn't fall in his tracks but was real easy to trail due to the massive hole. I have found these bullets to be exceptionally accurate and look forward to using them more in the very near future. Thanks for turning me on to such a great bullet! 

Jeff Gregory/Chesterfield. Va

Hi Ray,

This deer I recently took during muzzleloader season using a CVA 50. cal inline using your .25 ACP breech plug system.  The bullet was a 245gr.Barnes spitfire. Powder charge was 3 - 50gr Pyrodex pellets.  The shot was 192 yards with the bullet traveling through both lungs and between the ribs. (No Bone contact)  After firing the shot which was over the backs of two does to hit the buck, which was a 8" inch window over the does.  The buck ran 175 yards before falling over dead in a thicket. I was only able to find 3 drops of blood of about the size of the end of a "Q" tip.  Needless to say, tracking was somewhat awful being no snow on the ground. His hoof track is basically all I had to go by.  After 15 minutes of tracking I found the deer piled up in the nearby thicket where I saw him run too.  He bled out entirely inside his chest cavity. The exit wound was exactly the size of the entrance wound (no expansion at all).
Basically like shooting a full metal jacket.  Nice sweet long range with the Barnes spitfire but poor expansion of the bullet. Still an awesome shot for any gun. But I do love the ease of a good blood trail.

As for the .25 ACP system, It rocks!!  At 200 yards and 150gr Pyrodex pellets and bench rested I am placing minus 3"inch groups 6"inches low.  At 125 yards I am 2"inches high cutting bullet for bullet and swabbing with a spit patch on all shots.  Never to return to the 209 system.  Next year I will try another style of bullet. The Barnes tipped MZ with its large hollow point looks like possibility or Hornady's new SST.

Have a nice and Happy new year Ray!

Tom Giesige

Hello from Ft sill, Oklahoma. This is the 6th buck in the past years I have gotten here on this army post. Last year I used your bullets and they performed awesome. Dropped the deer in there tracks. I didn't take any photos. But here are some pics of a buck I got on a mountain top last SAT. during muzzle loader season. It was walking over the crest and weaving through big boulders all I had was a neck shot.  I shot it at 50 yards and hit exactly where I was aiming. I am so confident using your bullets. I get awesome groups at 100 and 150 yards. 1IN with the 100 gr 777, 195 gr 357 Duplex's; there so accurate. The buck will score in the 150's and field dressed at 168lbs. Its age 8yrs. So far it is the 2nd biggest buck killed on Ft Sill.  All my friends use your bullets and some have gone to other units and posts state side and buy the bullets there too using your web sight. They will have had great success. The shear knock down of these bullets is one of a kind.  I have shot everything, all kinds of bullets too. Thanks for a great product. Enjoy the pictures.

Elton (Lee) Jeans

Thought I would send feedback to this Incredible product. This is truly the tightest group I have ever seen from a muzzleloader. Shot 1,2 practically same hole (these 2 shots were from mounting the scope, gun right out of the box which is a .489 group (no bore sighting). The next three shots are truly impressive as well. .713 WOW!! My father was a firearms instructor for our local police dept. and is one of the best shooters I know of, and he as well was very impressed with the accuracy. I am still amazed at the accuracy of the Savage, coupled with the Precision Products.  Conditions: Cloudy, 11 mph crosswind, 71 deg. 40/50 260 Gr. Dead center (using the Rat seating tool) 50 cal. Magnum sub-base 44 gr. XMP 5744 65 yds.  Brian Nelson Traffic Supervisor City of Clarksville 199 Tenth St. Clarksville TN 37043 Office (931)-645-7464 Nextel 29*51352

Ray, I shot up the bullets today and all I can say is WOW!  For the first try, I took my old T/C Renegade, primarily because it is by far the most familiar of my muzzleloaders... Over the years, I tried just about everything imaginable in it... Minnie's, Maxies, sabot this, sabot that, and the ONLY thing it has ever shot well is patched round balls... You could drive nails with them, but any of the sabot or cast bullets open up to around three inches with the occasional flyer.. So, using 80, 90, and 100 grains by volume of 777 FFg I started in my sighting in the scope which turned out to not need any adjustments... After that, and after I had my flinches and jerks out of the way, I got down to business.  On the first target, which I actually intended to be a practice target, I fired two rounds each of 80, 90, and 100 grains... It was a one hole group! Backing off to 100 yards, I turned in another three rounds again all holes touching the other... I'll have to scan the targets, but basically, I found no point of impact difference between 80 and 100 grains 777 FFg at 50 yards, and no change in accuracy at 100 yards using 100 grains... This is the very first "bullet" of any kind other than the patched round ball that I have found to shoot in this rifle... If this is any indication at all, the QT is one heck of a great bullet.... I'm totally impressed... I'm going to post this on the forums, and then get the article together for the magazine page... 

Dave QUOTE: "Lord, please help me to be just half the man my dog thinks I am"... 

D. Robert (Dave) Quick HANDLOADING FOR HUNTING Main Website: http://www.accs.net/users/drquick 
Discussion forums: 
http://drquick.proboards18.com/

05/07/04 - 50 cal Omega group at 100 yds is now 1.5" with the dead center-Down from 3+" with Powerbelts
05/08/04 - Clean the barrel after 3 shots-100 grains 777 and a good Nikon scope. I was very disappointed with the performance of the Powerbelts. They were scattered all over the target. The Dead Centers with the double sabot was a welcome relief.
10/23/04 - Finally, something to report about the 195 grain duplex sabot. It was in the mid-80's the 1st few days of the season with no movement at all. Then, the rains came with cooler weather. The duplex performed great. A 156 lb white-tail (remember I am in extreme South Ga.) at 62 yards, it entered the left shoulder, destroying both lungs, then passed completely through the right shoulder and was found under the skin while dressing. The bullet appears to be completely intact. The 195 grain bullet mushroomed very well, measuring 3/4" and appears to have rolled back even with the base. I will see if I can scare up a scale and calipers and give you a little more info. Recover was less than 35 yards, with a good blood trail especially with only an entry wound. A T/C Omega, 100 grains of 777 and especially the DEAD CENTER duplex are an extremely good combination.

Arthur Ambrose

Hi Ray- I finally got a chance to shoot more than paper this past weekend on the Pennsylvania early muzzleloading opener- does only season. I was very impressed with the QT and the job it did on an animal. Truly devastating at 100 yards. The penetration and the way the bullet exited the deer made tracking in yellow and bright red maple leaves (although pretty in the sun) easy because of the amount of blood.  Pete

Ray, I thought I would drop you an email to let you know how happy I am with your sabots! I was shooting Powerbelt 275 grain bullets and wasn't happy at all! They dropped like a rock after 150 yards. I have a TC Encore 45 and the Powerbelts were dropping 9 inches from 150 to 200 yards! I shots your sabots (.40 Caliber QT 250 grain) and could not believe it....At 100 yards I was 4 inches high and at 200 it was still 3 inches high. I moved the target out to 250 yards and I was only 4 inches low! I could not believe it! NO "flyers" either! I am going on an Elk hunt in New Mexico in 2 weeks and an extra 100 yards or more range sure will help! 

Thanks! 

Sid in Georgia

I received this email on 15 Aug 04 from Frank Langston of Allen TX: The group on the lower left is the Dead Center 240 gr .40/ 50 Cal. behind 37.2 gr of N110.@ 100yds .667 inches. 89 Degrees Sunny 5 mph head wind. 1st shot 2147 fps; 2nd shot 2107 fps; 3rd shot 2066 fps The group above is a 5 shot group of Dead Center 260gr .40/50 cal behind 38 gr of N110. 1st shot 2215 fps; second shot 2201 fps; 3rd shot 2191 fps; 4th shot 2202 fps; 5th shot 2211 fps. The flyer caused this group to be 1 inch. It came on the first shot out of a clean barrel. Shot 2-5 measure .5 inch! This was almost 4 one hole hits. Only 50 shots have been fired through this new Savage. Imagine what it will do when the barrel is broken in!!!!! 

Frank Langston 
Allen Texas

I received this email on 14 Aug 04 from Frank Langston of Allen TX:  So far my best 3 shot group came with the Dead Center .40 240 gr. 50 cal using 44 gr of AA 5744.  1st shot 1905 fps; 2nd shot 1848 fps; 3rd shot 1840 fps for a 1.58 inch group @ 100yds. I am using a stock Simmons 3x9x40 scope. When the barrel gets broke in the groups will shrink. Cleaning with a saliva patch after 5 rounds will get velocity and grouping more consistent.  Click graphic to enlarge.

Frank

Hey Ray, 

I shot 2 does and a nine point (he shrunk some when he hit the ground) during Iowa's late deer season with Precision bullets. None of them went more than twenty yards, unlike the previous two deer I shot with another brand of bullet. The deer that I double lunged traveled 75 and the one I single lunged/livered went 200+ yards. I like not tracking. I just upgraded to an Austin Halleck 420 from my old Timber Ridge. Do you have any experience with the Austin Hallecks?? What bullet weight/load recommendations can you make to shorten the learning curve?? 

Thanks, Chris

Hello Ray;

I finally got to shoot the BpBullets, 220 grain only Dead Centers.  I loaded 100 grains of Pyrodex (2 pellets) and shot through my Chrony.  Muzzle velocity varied 1850 to 1900 fps.  I got 2" three shot groups at 100 yards, (actually 110 yards).  I don't know why the clubs range was set up like that.  I cleaned the bore between each shot.  I shot one 3 shot group at 200 yrds, got a 4" spread.  Can't do a lot of testing with just 10 bullets.  At 200 yds, a 4" group is far and away the best I have ever done with a smoke pole.  There was another shooter testing with a Knight Rifle.  I don't know the bullet type or powder charge he was loading, but he was shooting 5" groups at 110yds.  My Omega seems to perform best with 80 to 85 grains powder charge.  I used the two Pyrodex pellets to eliminate errors on my part.  I sure wish I could afford your 22 Hornet breech plug.  This was not an all out test for accuracy,  It was to determine bullet quality, and it is superb.

Bob Spann

Ray 

The quality of the construction of the product was visually superb, but several things (opening a new business, ect.) has not let me actually test these bullets in my rifle (a Thompson Center Encore).

What really impresses me is the personal interest you took in advising me on how best to work on my accuracy potential.

Ray,

Let me put it this way to portray my satisfaction with my order. I can't load, shoot and clean my rifle for next round as fast as I received the shipment from you. The bullets are very well built and the sabots fit according to caliber of bullet also. The dead center bullets I order needed to be bumped up in weight along with the QT bullets. Now on the other hand the extreme 330 gr. shoot like one inch groups with 150 gr. of 777 ffg powder. I've shot those up, already, in one setting to see what powder weight shoots best. I think something like a seventy five or one hundred pack would be nice, but pricey I bet. Thank you for your service and your follow up on the order. 

Keith

Dear Cecil, a product testimony:

I discovered the precision rifle bullet in 2002 after trying at least five other top manufactures of muzzleloader bullets (Remington, Hornady, T/C, etc.). I had come to accept the typical 4" (3) shot group @ 100yds with peep sights (scopes not legal in my state of Idaho) as normal for modern muzzleloaders. When I began reading about subminute of angle groups with prbullets, I was skeptical but curious enough to place an order of Dead Center 50/45 bullets. Immediately my accuracy improved but I was closer to 2.5" than an 1". Rather than stop there, I gave prbullet a call. Working with Cecil, I was soon shooting groups that averaged 1.5" with the best being .75" (with the rare 3" because of a flyer). I had improved my accuracy 250%! The next test came a month later during hunting season. I took a 160 pound mule deer doe at 80 yards. The shot was head on and when the smoke cleared, I saw the deer racing downhill kicking her back legs wildly. She piled up 25 yards later. Upon cleaning the deer, I found the entrance wound at the base of her neck between her front shoulders. The bullet took the heart and then broke every rib from that point back. I found the bullet lodged against the pelvis (over 3 feet of penetration!) Upon weighing the bullet, it still weighed 264 grains- it had retained 88% of its original weight after hitting all that bone. To say the least, I am very happy that I found the Precision Rifle bullet and was thankful for all the technical help that the company gave. Their products are what they say they are.

Sincerely, a customer for life, Robby Denning, hunter and outdoor writer. * Rifle was a 50 cal Kahnke in 24" moly barrel

Love your product. Both of these deer were shot with QT Polymer Tip 275 gr. Both deer went straight down with zero yards to recovery. Last years deer (2001) was my son's first hunt. Keep up the good work!!!

Dean Iwanoczko

Just wanted ya'll to know that your bullets work great this is my business and hunting partner with a 155" buck taken with a 45 caliber Encore and I sending another picture with me and a 145" 9 point(my first muzzleloader kill) taken with a 200 grain dead center. Thanks for all ya'll help with the loads and all the other information we got. I can truly tell my customers to use your bullets.
Ronnie Cannon - Oxford, Ms. HOLE-IN-THE-HIDE OUTFITTERS

Dear Sirs,

I would like to take this time to thank you for a fantastic product. On November 12, 2002 I made the most efficient humane kill ever with a muzzleloader. The result was a nine point buck with a 20 inch inside spread. The buck weighed 163 lbs. I dropped him with your dead center 45 caliber 240 gr. right in his tracks. I am shooting a nickel size group at 100 yards with a Thompson Center Encore and a 100 gr. of triple seven and your dead center sabots. This is a great combination that I plan to use over and over again. Again Thank you for our product and I look forward to seeing what you have to offer in the future.

Sincerely,
Michael K. Williams

Hi.

I am very impressed with your QT bullets. My wife had a great deer hunting season this year, and your QT 240 gr. bullet had a lot to do with it. The down range accuracy even with a old TC Hawkins 1 in 48 twist rifle, is the best we have ever used. Attached are some pictures

Roger & Sharon Conrath

To Everyone,

I bought my first bullets from you many years ago at a trade show, I've shot nothing else since. The accuracy and performance is unparalleled by any of your competition. As a professional big game hunter your bullets have proved themselves many times over ( To the delight of my taxidermist.) This year proved to be another success. I harvested this beautiful eight pointer at 108 yds. with a 300 grain silver lightning on the last day of Minnesota deer season. (See attached file: 2002 Whitetail Buck.bmp)

Thanks, And good hunting.
Gregory S. Maros

Hi,
I just want to say thanks for making the best bullets around. Attached is a picture of a deer I harvested on my Great Uncles farm in Minnesota November 16, 2002 using a Dead Center 175g in My Knight 45 Disc Extreme pushed with 110g of 777 fff. The deer was at 160 yards walking. The shot was a pass through which hit both lungs, he traveled about 50 yards and tipped over dead. This is the third deer I've shot with these bullets and all three went less than 50 yards with great blood trails.

Thanks again,
Brett Vegoe
Minnesota